<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Those are choices!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/</link>
	<description>Free Software Chicago Style: letting proprietary solutions sleep with the fishes</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: pilpilon</title>
		<link>http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/#comment-1011</link>
		<dc:creator>pilpilon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/#comment-1011</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;2erik&lt;/strong&gt; I've never believed in synergy. I believe in stagnation.
A lot of choices bring us less stagnation.
&lt;strong&gt;2nixternal&lt;/strong&gt;
There are CADs for Unix, most of for Unix , Pro/E, CATIA, UG all work under Unix, and some under Linux too. They are expensive proprietary software, that's true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>2erik</strong> I&#8217;ve never believed in synergy. I believe in stagnation.<br />
A lot of choices bring us less stagnation.<br />
<strong>2nixternal</strong><br />
There are CADs for Unix, most of for Unix , Pro/E, CATIA, UG all work under Unix, and some under Linux too. They are expensive proprietary software, that&#8217;s true.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nixternal</title>
		<link>http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/#comment-1001</link>
		<dc:creator>nixternal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 04:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/#comment-1001</guid>
		<description>HAHAH! Everyone should just use KDE! I love it. You are right though, and no matter if your reverse the circumstances, you will end up at the same location. With the DE split, we can say it is Gnome's fault :) I did not know came after KDE, I thought it was the other way around for some reason. Been a long time. I applaud the efforts of the FreeDesktop specs and I hope that we can all come to some kind of conclusion and keeping the cat skinned the way the user likes :)  Were you being sarcastic with the Gentoo comment, seeing as you posted with Kubuntu? And ever since I upgraded to Gutsy, my OS reports as just Linux.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HAHAH! Everyone should just use KDE! I love it. You are right though, and no matter if your reverse the circumstances, you will end up at the same location. With the DE split, we can say it is Gnome&#8217;s fault <img src='http://blog.nixternal.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> I did not know came after KDE, I thought it was the other way around for some reason. Been a long time. I applaud the efforts of the FreeDesktop specs and I hope that we can all come to some kind of conclusion and keeping the cat skinned the way the user likes <img src='http://blog.nixternal.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Were you being sarcastic with the Gentoo comment, seeing as you posted with Kubuntu? And ever since I upgraded to Gutsy, my OS reports as just Linux.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Trejkaz</title>
		<link>http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/#comment-1000</link>
		<dc:creator>Trejkaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 04:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/#comment-1000</guid>
		<description>I have a good way to defuse whiners who complain about this "wasted effort" in having two projects which do the same thing: I say "I agree, everyone should just use KDE."

This inevitably leads to one of two situations:

1. The user happens to love KDE, in which case they see you as an ally anyway.

2. The user happens to love GNOME, in which case they instantly see why choice is a good idea.

Mind you, this "split" is becoming less of an "issue" lately anyway, as both KDE and GNOME are making a concerted effort to do similar things in a similar way (via FreeDesktop specifications), and largely apps on one have no issue working on the other anyway (not that they really ever had any issue, beyond look and feel mismatches.)

I use the same kind of counter for people who complain about there being too many distros: I just say "I know, everyone should just use Gentoo."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a good way to defuse whiners who complain about this &#8220;wasted effort&#8221; in having two projects which do the same thing: I say &#8220;I agree, everyone should just use KDE.&#8221;</p>
<p>This inevitably leads to one of two situations:</p>
<p>1. The user happens to love KDE, in which case they see you as an ally anyway.</p>
<p>2. The user happens to love GNOME, in which case they instantly see why choice is a good idea.</p>
<p>Mind you, this &#8220;split&#8221; is becoming less of an &#8220;issue&#8221; lately anyway, as both KDE and GNOME are making a concerted effort to do similar things in a similar way (via FreeDesktop specifications), and largely apps on one have no issue working on the other anyway (not that they really ever had any issue, beyond look and feel mismatches.)</p>
<p>I use the same kind of counter for people who complain about there being too many distros: I just say &#8220;I know, everyone should just use Gentoo.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nixternal</title>
		<link>http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/#comment-992</link>
		<dc:creator>nixternal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/#comment-992</guid>
		<description>I definitely do see a lack of collaboration on a lot of projects. One project that us hippies seem to work around is CAD. Quite simply there is not one CAD solution for *nix. I would like to know what the strategically juicy targets are for sure. I haven't messed around in a Windows environment long enough to catch them all, if any at all.

Another thing I see lacking besides a common goal, is a goal in general. Most people will say our common goal is to destroy Microsoft when that isn't it. Another person might say we just want to be a viable option for the desktop market, which I still feel has a bit to go, but has gotten better in the last 3 to 5 years, actually the past 2 years have been pretty good for the Linux desktop.

Oh, and the volunteers aren't silly. Because if it wasn't for all of these volunteers, Linux wouldn't be anything more than a Kernel that Linus enjoys working on. I am interested in who you feel are the top 5 developers in the world. I have 3 that stick out in my head, however I feel they might be past their prime in some cases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely do see a lack of collaboration on a lot of projects. One project that us hippies seem to work around is CAD. Quite simply there is not one CAD solution for *nix. I would like to know what the strategically juicy targets are for sure. I haven&#8217;t messed around in a Windows environment long enough to catch them all, if any at all.</p>
<p>Another thing I see lacking besides a common goal, is a goal in general. Most people will say our common goal is to destroy Microsoft when that isn&#8217;t it. Another person might say we just want to be a viable option for the desktop market, which I still feel has a bit to go, but has gotten better in the last 3 to 5 years, actually the past 2 years have been pretty good for the Linux desktop.</p>
<p>Oh, and the volunteers aren&#8217;t silly. Because if it wasn&#8217;t for all of these volunteers, Linux wouldn&#8217;t be anything more than a Kernel that Linus enjoys working on. I am interested in who you feel are the top 5 developers in the world. I have 3 that stick out in my head, however I feel they might be past their prime in some cases.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: erik</title>
		<link>http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/#comment-991</link>
		<dc:creator>erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/#comment-991</guid>
		<description>The largest problem I see is that I am aware of only roughly 5 good developers on the whole planet. So you got 5 painters and at least as many skyscrapers. And thousands of little helpers, apprentice, and silly volunteers. Sure, not building the same skyscraper.. However they got similar components, insane amounts of them. Windows, doors, ventilation systems, ..

Also, there are a few things the open source hippies could do to make the life of Microsoft really bad and really really fast (practically you could at least quadruple the migration rate of Linux within couple months from what it is currently). There are a few (~10) strategically &lt;b&gt;juicy&lt;b&gt; targets but no one seems to be working on them. The lack of coordination issue again, people would be working on those if they just had finished some other things first already...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The largest problem I see is that I am aware of only roughly 5 good developers on the whole planet. So you got 5 painters and at least as many skyscrapers. And thousands of little helpers, apprentice, and silly volunteers. Sure, not building the same skyscraper.. However they got similar components, insane amounts of them. Windows, doors, ventilation systems, ..</p>
<p>Also, there are a few things the open source hippies could do to make the life of Microsoft really bad and really really fast (practically you could at least quadruple the migration rate of Linux within couple months from what it is currently). There are a few (~10) strategically <b>juicy</b><b> targets but no one seems to be working on them. The lack of coordination issue again, people would be working on those if they just had finished some other things first already&#8230;</b></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nixternal</title>
		<link>http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/#comment-987</link>
		<dc:creator>nixternal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.06.28/those-are-choices/#comment-987</guid>
		<description>@erik: I like that skyscraper analogy and it would work if everyone started with the same skyscraper, but we didn't. Each skyscraper created a team of people to help paint it, then other people decided they didn't like the paint job of that skyscraper and decided to find one to paint themselves. The GNU people didn't like the KDE skyscraper because at first there was an issue with a padlock on the door (the license restrictions of Qt), so they decided they would create/paint a skyscraper with a wide open front door.

Think about it for a second now. If the GNU project hadn't created Gnome, we would all more than likely be using KDE today, which I wouldn't mind :)  But there are people out there that don't like KDE for various reasons, which at times I understand wholeheartedly. So now, people have their choice of 2 skyscrapers to use and maybe one day help maintain. Maybe this 2nd skyscraper helped make Linux as popular as it is today, well I can guarantee it helped, as there are a lot of Gnome users. I know there were other DEs before these 2, but these are the 2 predominant skyscrapers.

I tend to agree at the same time though because if all of the effort was targeted at one project, maybe then things could be better. I think the skyscraper analogy can work in a lot of circumstances, but I think the society that Linux has created also prevents it at the same time. I think the society realized that everybody has a different need from their system, so offering this choice tends to help everyone in the long run. It is still kind of hard to imagine because it leaves a huge "what if" that would go on forever.

You are 100% correct though that Office 2007 has put OO.o years behind functionality and somewhat with usability. I don't/haven't used Office 2007 enough to see the usability side just yet. But from what I have seen, at first there was a decent learning curve of where everything was located. That is what I liked about OO.o is that usability wise it was damn close to spot on with Office in a majority of locational aspects.

I will also be the first to say that if it wasn't for Microsoft, more than likely, you and I wouldn't be holding this conversation the way we are. BBS might still be alive, well it is, but not like it was. Microsoft has done so much for the technology world that you can't really be all that angry at them. Granted their past, and somewhat present, business practices aren't all that ethical. But at the same time either was Ma Bell's. Look at AT&#038;T today, they have painted, sold, torn down, and somehow recreated a skyscraper that integrated everything their previous skyscraper(s) did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@erik: I like that skyscraper analogy and it would work if everyone started with the same skyscraper, but we didn&#8217;t. Each skyscraper created a team of people to help paint it, then other people decided they didn&#8217;t like the paint job of that skyscraper and decided to find one to paint themselves. The GNU people didn&#8217;t like the KDE skyscraper because at first there was an issue with a padlock on the door (the license restrictions of Qt), so they decided they would create/paint a skyscraper with a wide open front door.</p>
<p>Think about it for a second now. If the GNU project hadn&#8217;t created Gnome, we would all more than likely be using KDE today, which I wouldn&#8217;t mind <img src='http://blog.nixternal.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  But there are people out there that don&#8217;t like KDE for various reasons, which at times I understand wholeheartedly. So now, people have their choice of 2 skyscrapers to use and maybe one day help maintain. Maybe this 2nd skyscraper helped make Linux as popular as it is today, well I can guarantee it helped, as there are a lot of Gnome users. I know there were other DEs before these 2, but these are the 2 predominant skyscrapers.</p>
<p>I tend to agree at the same time though because if all of the effort was targeted at one project, maybe then things could be better. I think the skyscraper analogy can work in a lot of circumstances, but I think the society that Linux has created also prevents it at the same time. I think the society realized that everybody has a different need from their system, so offering this choice tends to help everyone in the long run. It is still kind of hard to imagine because it leaves a huge &#8220;what if&#8221; that would go on forever.</p>
<p>You are 100% correct though that Office 2007 has put OO.o years behind functionality and somewhat with usability. I don&#8217;t/haven&#8217;t used Office 2007 enough to see the usability side just yet. But from what I have seen, at first there was a decent learning curve of where everything was located. That is what I liked about OO.o is that usability wise it was damn close to spot on with Office in a majority of locational aspects.</p>
<p>I will also be the first to say that if it wasn&#8217;t for Microsoft, more than likely, you and I wouldn&#8217;t be holding this conversation the way we are. BBS might still be alive, well it is, but not like it was. Microsoft has done so much for the technology world that you can&#8217;t really be all that angry at them. Granted their past, and somewhat present, business practices aren&#8217;t all that ethical. But at the same time either was Ma Bell&#8217;s. Look at AT&#038;T today, they have painted, sold, torn down, and somehow recreated a skyscraper that integrated everything their previous skyscraper(s) did.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Dynamic Page Served (once) in 0.765 seconds -->
