Comments on: OMFGWTFBBQ! No more Gimp? http://blog.nixternal.com/2009.11.26/omfgwtfbbq-no-more-gimp/ Free Software Chicago Style: letting proprietary solutions sleep with the fishes Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:01:36 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Kubuntiac http://blog.nixternal.com/2009.11.26/omfgwtfbbq-no-more-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-5434 Kubuntiac Sun, 29 Nov 2009 04:48:29 +0000 http://blog.nixternal.com/?p=693#comment-5434 Seems to me that whether someone believes Gimp should or shouldn't be installed by default, that almost everyone can agree that we want people new to (K)Ubuntu to find the great stuff not there by default. It also seems to me that the people who are unhappy with it's removal are largely saying they *would* be happy if it's existence and quality were acknowledged somewhere obvious to the people who might be interested. Ok. I'm biased. However, as far as I can see, 99% of people would be ok with Gimp not installed by default, if there was some kind of showcasing like in the mockup. (Although I'm sure that the other 1% will post here to refute it! lol). This would likely give it *more* exposure than just an entry in the menu as they get to read a full description and know that it's highly recommended. Surely this would be the easiest way to still remove it *and* address the concerns people have about that? Better yet, we get to drive home to new users one of our greatest strengths: all the great software that a free desktop enables. +1 for the Gimp, *and* all the other xxxx great projects out there. +1 for uniting a divided community. Vote Kubuntiac for President? "For a default installation policy you can believe in." ;-) Seems to me that whether someone believes Gimp should or shouldn’t be installed by default, that almost everyone can agree that we want people new to (K)Ubuntu to find the great stuff not there by default. It also seems to me that the people who are unhappy with it’s removal are largely saying they *would* be happy if it’s existence and quality were acknowledged somewhere obvious to the people who might be interested.

Ok. I’m biased. However, as far as I can see, 99% of people would be ok with Gimp not installed by default, if there was some kind of showcasing like in the mockup. (Although I’m sure that the other 1% will post here to refute it! lol). This would likely give it *more* exposure than just an entry in the menu as they get to read a full description and know that it’s highly recommended.

Surely this would be the easiest way to still remove it *and* address the concerns people have about that? Better yet, we get to drive home to new users one of our greatest strengths: all the great software that a free desktop enables. +1 for the Gimp, *and* all the other xxxx great projects out there. +1 for uniting a divided community.

Vote Kubuntiac for President?
“For a default installation policy you can believe in.” ;-)

]]> By: nixternal http://blog.nixternal.com/2009.11.26/omfgwtfbbq-no-more-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-5433 nixternal Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:05:13 +0000 http://blog.nixternal.com/?p=693#comment-5433 @Ryan - If someone needs Gimp, they are obviously going to know how to install it. <blockquote>"If Ubuntu had a better solution for having newbs choose software, this would be less of a big deal."</blockquote> If they are so-called newbs, then there is a great chance they don't need Gimp, as according to the head Gimp dev, it is for professionals. The current installation method for Ubuntu is a different story, because with the thought of a better installation manager, then we wouldn't need any software installed by default, or with the current bad way of installing, we should just incorporate every piece of software in the repository. http://popcon.ubuntu.com also shows Gimp in the 520th spot for install/use. If you go through the forums, IRC, and mailing lists, I would have to say Gimp doesn't fulfill a need of the typical, or most encountered, user of Ubuntu. @Ryan – If someone needs Gimp, they are obviously going to know how to install it.

“If Ubuntu had a better solution for having newbs choose software, this would be less of a big deal.”

If they are so-called newbs, then there is a great chance they don’t need Gimp, as according to the head Gimp dev, it is for professionals. The current installation method for Ubuntu is a different story, because with the thought of a better installation manager, then we wouldn’t need any software installed by default, or with the current bad way of installing, we should just incorporate every piece of software in the repository.

http://popcon.ubuntu.com also shows Gimp in the 520th spot for install/use. If you go through the forums, IRC, and mailing lists, I would have to say Gimp doesn’t fulfill a need of the typical, or most encountered, user of Ubuntu.

]]> By: Ryan Thiessen http://blog.nixternal.com/2009.11.26/omfgwtfbbq-no-more-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-5432 Ryan Thiessen Sat, 28 Nov 2009 22:08:11 +0000 http://blog.nixternal.com/?p=693#comment-5432 Obviously adept users can use apt-get to install GIMP, that's not the issue. The issue is in having productivity software installed to handle the needs of users. If Ubuntu had a better solution for having newbs choose software, this would be less of a big deal. However even with the (substantially improved) Ubuntu Software Centre in Karmic, it's still difficult for a complete amateur to find an application. Instead there is a long messy list, organized by alphabet and not relevance or quality. The mock-ups by Kubuntiac are <b>precisely</b> what is needed to address this gap. If something like that is delivered at the same time, then not installing GIMP by default is not a big deal at all. Obviously adept users can use apt-get to install GIMP, that’s not the issue. The issue is in having productivity software installed to handle the needs of users.

If Ubuntu had a better solution for having newbs choose software, this would be less of a big deal. However even with the (substantially improved) Ubuntu Software Centre in Karmic, it’s still difficult for a complete amateur to find an application. Instead there is a long messy list, organized by alphabet and not relevance or quality.

The mock-ups by Kubuntiac are precisely what is needed to address this gap. If something like that is delivered at the same time, then not installing GIMP by default is not a big deal at all.

]]> By: Kubuntiac http://blog.nixternal.com/2009.11.26/omfgwtfbbq-no-more-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-5431 Kubuntiac Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:54:37 +0000 http://blog.nixternal.com/?p=693#comment-5431 Ideally, I'd love to get rid of the extra buttons/slider on the bottom of the browser plasmoid and make the screenshot thumbnails link to larger images. Step one though would be just getting interest in seeing something like this for new users to discover our "free apps advantage" better. Step 2 I imagine would be getting it on jriddells desk. :) Ideally, I’d love to get rid of the extra buttons/slider on the bottom of the browser plasmoid and make the screenshot thumbnails link to larger images. Step one though would be just getting interest in seeing something like this for new users to discover our “free apps advantage” better. Step 2 I imagine would be getting it on jriddells desk. :)

]]> By: Kubuntiac http://blog.nixternal.com/2009.11.26/omfgwtfbbq-no-more-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-5430 Kubuntiac Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:50:33 +0000 http://blog.nixternal.com/?p=693#comment-5430 I couldn't resist, I knocked up a mock-up of both the widget showing the (temp) categories and apps shown. The point here is *not* what the categories or apps should be, but how it would work and look. The irony is that this mockup is all using the actual web browser plasmoid with real html, so it's actually about 90% there already... Category view: http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5836/suggestcategories.png Recommended App view: http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6502/suggestresults.png If anyone's interested in seeing my hastily mocked-up html/css (which, yes, needs improving -it's a mockup), let me know and I'll upload it somewhere. I couldn’t resist, I knocked up a mock-up of both the widget showing the (temp) categories and apps shown. The point here is *not* what the categories or apps should be, but how it would work and look.

The irony is that this mockup is all using the actual web browser plasmoid with real html, so it’s actually about 90% there already…

Category view:
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5836/suggestcategories.png

Recommended App view:
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6502/suggestresults.png

If anyone’s interested in seeing my hastily mocked-up html/css (which, yes, needs improving -it’s a mockup), let me know and I’ll upload it somewhere.

]]> By: nixternal http://blog.nixternal.com/2009.11.26/omfgwtfbbq-no-more-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-5429 nixternal Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:22:37 +0000 http://blog.nixternal.com/?p=693#comment-5429 Groovy, awesome comments!!! Usually my posts tend to start riots :p @Kubuntunatic - I thought we had that in the older docs, however I don't think they were easily found. That might be a good thing to add to the "About Kubuntu" page possibly as that gets linked on the Live CD desktop, and maybe we could keep in the Desktop plasmoid that comes up. I know Ubuntu has a similar list as well. I will have to research this and put it into effect :) @Matt - F-Spot isn't replacing Gimp though, it can't replace it, in Linux there is no replacement for Gimp. As for the MS Paint thing, does GNOME have a small app like that? I know KDE does or used to. Groovy, awesome comments!!! Usually my posts tend to start riots :p

@Kubuntunatic – I thought we had that in the older docs, however I don’t think they were easily found. That might be a good thing to add to the “About Kubuntu” page possibly as that gets linked on the Live CD desktop, and maybe we could keep in the Desktop plasmoid that comes up. I know Ubuntu has a similar list as well. I will have to research this and put it into effect :)

@Matt – F-Spot isn’t replacing Gimp though, it can’t replace it, in Linux there is no replacement for Gimp. As for the MS Paint thing, does GNOME have a small app like that? I know KDE does or used to.

]]>